Visualizza la versione completa : calcio e magnesio quale relazione?
salve a tutti,
ho letto un articolo qui su acquaportal relativo alla taratura e gestione di un reatore di calcio.
alla fine dell'articolo, dopo tanti esaustivi consigli e tecniche di gestione, cmq dice che se non ci sono valori regolari di magnesio in vasca, non avremo mai il giusto valore di calcio. perchè?, quale relazione c'è tra i due componenti?
da quel poco che so il magnesio aiuta il calcio a "fissarsi". le virgolette non sono un caso, non son sicuro sia il termine tecnico esatto. il rapporto dovrebbe stare su 1:3 o 1:3,5 circa, tenendo presente che in natura varia da 1300 a 1500. c'è da dire pure che parecchi acquariofili vivono serenamente con valori inferiori
inoltre il magnesio nel giusto range aiuta a tenere alto il kh..
da quel poco che so il magnesio aiuta il calcio a "fissarsi". le virgolette non sono un caso, non son sicuro sia il termine tecnico esatto. il rapporto dovrebbe stare su 1:3 o 1:3,5 circa, tenendo presente che in natura varia da 1300 a 1500. c'è da dire pure che parecchi acquariofili vivono serenamente con valori inferiori
A dire il vero è la vitamina C che fissa il calcio.Ma qui non ho visto un 3d parlarne e nessuno usarla.
Restart, mi spiegheresti la storia della vitamina c..
#36# ;-)
Molti acquariofili stranieri usano ascorbato di calcio,ascorbato di magnesio o ascorbato di potassio.
L'acido ascorbico è vitamina C pura al 100% e come controindicazione ha che tende ad abbassare il PH che va quindi monitorato.
C'è la concetrazione di mantenimento che è di circa 5ppm fino alla concentrazione terapeutica che arriva a 50ppm.
I periodi di trattamento sono in genere di 15gg/1 mese e tre mesi di stop anche se qualcuno lo usa a 5ppm sempre.
anzie le dosi sono queste:
For every 100 gallons:
5 ppm ----- 1892 mg VC
10 ppm ---- 3785 mg VC
15 ppm ---- 5677 mg VC
20 ppm ---- 7570 mg VC
25 ppm ---- 9462 mg VC
30 ppm ---- 11355 mg VC
Day 1 : concentration of 5 ppm
Day 2 : concentration of 15 ppm
Day 3 : concentration of 30 ppm
Day 4 : concentration of 50 ppm
After day 4, continue treating with a concentration of 50 ppm for 10 more days to 30 more days, depending on the severity of what you are treating for.
Ovviamente se devi rimanere a 5ppm userai sempre la dose del day1.
ok ma lo scopo quale sarebbe? a parte gli effetti sul pH
sfugge anche a me...?
Molti acquariofili stranieri usano ascorbato di calcio,ascorbato di magnesio o ascorbato di potassio.
...per integrare tali elementi?
Chiedo scusa all'autore del post se siamo andati OT.
Questi sono i risultati postati da chi li usa:
-Calcificazione migliore
-Estensione maggiori dei polipi
-Acqua più limpida
-Ossidazione
-Prevenzione e cura di molte malattie dei pesci e coralli.
Uno stralcio in inglese,non posso mettermi a tradurlo ora:
Some Benefits of Using Vitamin C
Vitamin C has many beneficial properties. Here are some of them:
-Detoxifies the livers of the fishes. This may be really important if your fish were caught using the cyanide method, still too frequently practiced unfortunately. This is also important if your tank water contains heavy metals.
I am not saying that Vitamin C treatments will cure all fishes that were caught with cyanide, but it will certainly help a great many of them. It definitely is worth trying as you may indeed save a fish that would otherwise have died.
Note that this application of the usage of C falls under the therapeutic dosage recommendation listed later in this article. Dosing and concentration are high. Checking the buffering of the tank's water is frequent.
-Prevents, to a large degree, bacterial infections from spreading rapidly and becoming sores on the body of fishes, or affecting corals to to a degree that they start to "melt", or liquefy, or taking on a toothpaste appearance, as some hobbyists call it.
What Vitamin C, combined with water directed at the infected areas, does is prevent the spreading of the bacterial infection and promote the healing of the coral and or the fishes.
This fact has been related by many hobbyists. To clarify this further: when bacterial infections spread on a coral, the polyp tissue starts to disintegrate (turns whitish like a toothpaste like material), or a brown type sludge emanates from the coral polyp. Both are signs of bacterial infection.
-Can deal with minor outbreaks of common parasites and keep them from becoming widespread, negating the need to use other treatments to rid the fishes of them. Used over longer periods of time, the incidence of parasitic outbreaks is greatly diminished, if not eliminated all together.
Therapeutic or prophylactic dosages are used, depending on the severity of the infection. At times, when the infestation is real high, one may need to go higher in concentration than the dosages suggested below and the treatment may have to be combined with methods.
The key to how high the concentration needs to be brought is determined by how the animals react to progressively higher dosages (once or twice a day).
If no significant improvement if found at 50 ppm concentration, my recommendation is to build it up to 100 ppm (doing so gradually of course). Again, the higher you go in concentration, the more attention you need to pay to the dKH and to the pH of your tank's water.
-Builds up and strengthens the immune system of the fishes by allowing the evacuation of heavy metals, and other toxins that may have accumulated over time in their organs for instance. How this works exactly is not quite known at this point. Fish in tanks treated with Vitamin C just seem to be healthier. Healthy fish means less problems of all manners and kinds.
Anecdotal evidence has built up though to a degree that tends to lend credence to the fact that Vitamin C treatments make fishes more resistant to parasitic and bacterial infections, and to the fact that corals appear to do a lot better. Again I refer you to messages in our message database that describe situations other hobbyists have gone through.
-Heals wounds. Fish may develop such wounds from scratching themselves against rock or from territorial fights. When the wounds are not treated they can develop into infections. Infections then develop into lesions. Using C prevents this from happening to a great degree as related by many a hobbyist.
As I indicated, Vitamin C appears to prevent this from happening. I have no conclusive evidence yet that wounds on corals heal but am looking into this more in detail. What I have found though is that a Heteractis magnifica anemone with damage to its base (foot), healed completely after three weeks of treatment at 40 ppm concentration.
Note that corals can become wounded by falling rock or by being brushed against by the spines of an urchin. Should this happen to your animals, I strongly recommend treating as if a bacterial infection were present (to prevent it from occurring).
-Heals mouth rot and the scars resulting from it. Again hobbyists have reported this to me on several occasions and I have personally treated such sick fish at real high dosages, not only adding the Vitamin C to the water but also rubbing the rotting parts around the mouth with powdered vitamin C several times a day. I treated a fish at an aquarium store in Fairfield Connecticut that has severe mouth lesions and the fish healed just about completely. Only minor scars were visible after three weeks of treatment.
-Heals lesions from black spot disease and the disease itself. This is a real complicated treatment though and requires dosages as high as 100-150 ppm concentration and can only be done in an isolation tank as, at these dosages, one really needs to monitor all water quality conditions several times a day.
In fact, in one case where I treated a fish at Tropiquarium in Atlanta (a large Yellow Tang, we monitored the water chemistry every hour. The fish healed completely, save for a slight depression in the body tissue where the once half dollar size "hole" created by the Black Spot disease was. At the time the Manager, Chuck Burge, was totally amazed and had made a bet that this was not going to happen, a bet he lost!
The skin healed and took on it natural color again. During the entire treatment the fish ate voraciously too. To be honest the healing was so good that if we did not point the depression in the skin out, you would probably not have noticed it.
-Effective in combating Lateral Line Disease when used in the proper amounts and concentrations (large dosages which are listed later). Most of the results were experienced in the early onset of the disease but even in later stages excellent results were obtained. You should start the treatment as soon as you suspect that lateral line disease may be in its early onset, but you can certainly, and should, resort to the treatments suggested later even when the lateral line disease has progressed already. Follow the directions given later in this article.
-Effective in combating hole-in-the-head disease, again, if used in large dosages (as explained later). This kind of goes hand in hand with Lateral Line Disease as both are frequently if not just about all the time found together (one seems to lead to the other).
-Greatly reduces the outbreak of parasitic attacks, as the fishes are strengthened and able to fight them off, thus preventing large scale parasitic infestations. Not surprisingly, hobbyists who dose C on a prophylactic basis every day do not appear to have problems with their fish suddenly showing signs of being infested with parasites.
-Even when a few speckles appear, they usually quickly disappear because the fish are able to get rid of the parasites by producing large amounts of slime.Healthy fish can do this to a far greater degree than not so healthy fish.
-Cleans up the water to some degree. I would not call C a method of treating your water but due to its oxidative power, it will lower the amount of dissolved organic material that is present in your tank's water. This is beneficial as it reduces the likelihood of outbreaks of red slime algae.
-Beneficial to most corals on which we have tried C. Corals appear to open more and look more vibrant. Although one could easily construe this as subjective, the impression of others who looked at the tanks over a period of time were positive in this regard.
-Can very safely be used in reef tanks. Vitamin C used in the proper manner only yields positive results and I have yet to find any negative effects associated with its use.
-Much better than copper and/or antibiotics. Both are dangerous in reef aquariums due to their side effects. There are some that can be used in reef tanks but that is not the topic of this article. Metronidazole is such an antibiotic.
-Enhances colors in fishes and in corals, especially when used long-term.
-Some evidence tends to support the fact that fish that refuse to eat, start eating after Vitamin C treatments have taken place for some time. At high dosages (my personal experience with this facet of what Vitamin C can do) was very conclusive at dosages of around 25 to 30 ppm concentration, twice a day, for about one week.
-Safe for use in all aquariums, including reefs. No side effects that can be considered negative have been found at this stage (and I have been using vitamin C for quite a few years now). All evidence leans towards the positive only.
Some report that minor outbreaks of algae have been eliminated since they started using C. The only explanation at this time is that the oxidative power of C is probably the reason, but I am speculating and need to research this further. The fact remains though that these are findings hobbyists have reported to me.
x la miseria restart...... mi sono incasinato alla seconda riga! :-D
x il momento prendo x buona la risposta di sjoplin ma se qualcun altro sa cosa relaziona i due componenti mi farebbe un gran piacere....
nel particolare vi voglio spiegare cosa mi sta accadendo..
premetto che ho anche un reattore di calcio.
per 3 mesi ho lottato contro il calcio per farlo passare da 280 a 420 aggiungendo preparati vari come spiegato nell'articolo che vi ho menzionato prima, ma senza risultati.
poi leggendolo attentamente ho visto questa nota sul magnesio e ho fatto il test.
risultato..... magnesio a 300!
ora ho sospeso di reintegrare il calcio e sto portando il magnesio sui valori normali (sono a 600).
però mi incuriosiva sto fatto della relazione fra magnesio e calcio.... #24
Il magnesio è uno ione che aiuta a mantenere in soluzione il calcio. Se manca, il calcio precipita.... Per questo va tenuto ad una concentrazione buona, altrimenti potete così salire col reattore, che tanto il Ca in vasca resta basso....
jpg288, alza il Mg e vedrai che non avrai problemi a far salire il Ca
Dicono (non so bene il perchè...) di tenere la salinità un po' più alta (1025, 1026 alcuni) per mantenere il Mg a livelli migliori.
Per quanto riguarda l'acido ascorbico o Vit. C, è un cofattore di varie proteine, senza il quale non svolgono correttamente la loro funzione. Prima funzione in cui è coinvolta (perlomeno nel corpo umano, ma sono funzioni ancestrali che sono generalmente conservate nella linea evolutiva dalle specie più semplici...) è quella di riparare i tessuti danneggiati. Se infatti non mangiate frutta e verdura freschi, principali alimenti contenti vit. C vi viene lo scorbuto... ovvero non guariscono le ferite e si dimagrisce morendo di emorragie sparse...
Abbassa il Ph perchè è un acido...
ovvero non guariscono le ferite e si dimagrisce morendo di emorragie sparse...
tutto questo per non mangiare frutta e verdura..?? -05
ink.... non potevi essere + esaudiente! grazie a tutti #25
morganwind
26-08-2008, 09:15
Se non erro il rapporto esatto tra magnesio e ca dovrebbe essere 3,25
Interessante ilt ema della vitamina C...
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